John was born in December 1167. He had been at the most 21 and you can perhaps younger than just that in case their child Joanna came to be. She may well was the new eldest of all pupils he fathered from the his some mistresses.
1187 June - John inside France whenever Chateauroux was being besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 30 - Henry returns to help you England, possibly that have John into the pull 1188 Summer - Henry sends John back again to Normandy, crosses from 1189 Summer 12 - John from the Le Mans whenever disarmed because of the Henry's purchase, then John fled or was added out getting coverage 1189 July six - Henry I dies from inside the France 1189 Aug. several - Richard will bring beautiful siberian women who want to date John back again to The united kingdomt which have him 1189 Aug. 31 - John married in order to Isabelle away from Gloucester in the Marlebridge 1189 September. step three - Richard crowned at the Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard delivers John on Wales to subdue the new rebellious Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you can Normandy and pressed for the oath not to ever place foot for the England for a few age 1190 June - Richard continues on crusade [John vacations his oath] For the motives, it is considered that the most important months, and most more than likely time for Joanna to possess become conceived, 's the 1187-nine several months. 1187 - John spends almost the season when you look at the France 1188 - John could have gone back to England from inside the January, but by summer is distributed to France, in which the guy appears to have stayed 1189 - John appears to be inside the France January - August, coming back to help you England for the August when preparing to own their marriage to the 30 Aug. If the John generated no further unrecorded productivity to help you The united kingdomt, it would appear that he spent about 80% off his big date from January 1187 until his marriage, in France . He had been will ultimately given the County out-of Mortain, in Normandy (prior to Richard's coronation).
These information, considering the months and simple fact that Joanna try lead in order to England off France for the 1203 to have their unique wedding so you're able to Llywelyn, gives credence for the idea that Joanna along with her mother was basically out of French/Norman origin.
Considering plus John's better-understood philandering during this period, there seems to be of numerous people into part off mommy off Joanna!
After a different sort of a lot of time lookup not, I will discover zero trace away from a great Clemence de- Dauntsey inside the new suggestions
My personal past post offered everything you to definitely Paget revealed that it try Clemence de- Dauntsey, just who partnered Nicholas de- Verdun. We thought that this was brand new Nicholas and you can Clementia to who Henry 111 supplied the child custody regarding Susanna (given that an excellent hostage) inside 1228. Used to do find yet not, the new advice of 1 genealogist whom certainly said it…’ I think that people (the fresh genealogists) have established that there is actually no including person given that Clemence de Dauntsey. One identification of one’s spouse out of Nicholas de Verdun is actually a great mistake from the Paget!’
Clemence ce Boteler came into this world on the 1175 inside the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire
I’m willing to accept that end, due to the fact next study of your details of next Clemence turned-out significantly more productive.
Clemence ce Boteler married Nicholas de- Verdun during the 1202 (their next wife once his relationship in order to Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, that it wedding is not proven) during the Alton, Staffordshire and had one youngster, Rohese de Verdun who was produced for the 1203 otherwise 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).
In the event the, actually, Joanna is caused by a liaison anywhere between John and Clemence ce Boteler (who was indeed aged up to 14-15 at the time), it could was basically very difficult to the Le Boteler family relations to track down an appropriate husband to possess Clemence. Actually specific a decade violation before a ily?) having a trustworthy English nobleman and property holder, Nicholas de Verdun. Leaving away for now the chance that Nicholas had fallen in love with brand new twenty seven year old Clemence and planned to marry her, it might have been necessary for John to incorporate Clemence that have certain possessions out of her own so she turned into a more glamorous prize to possess their own husband to be.